ATTENTION ALL NEW ENGLAND FIGHTERS AND COACHES: At last nights Athletic Commission meeting, the commish voted 4-1 in favor of requiring double weigh-in’s (day before and day of). Fighter can not be more than 1.062 times the contracted weight at fight time or fight does not happen. That means, if the fight is contracted at 160lbs and you make weight, but are over 170 come fight time, you can’t fight. Joe Esposito fought tooth and nail against this but other 4 dug in and passed it. It will be up for public review so it can still be changed. There is a meeting tomorrow @ 9am at 1 Ashburton Place in Boston on the 13th floor in Dept of Public Safety. I have been told that it is appropriate for me to “inform, but not incite” so that is what I am doing. Pat Schultz was also in attendance as was pro fighter Dave Hood and referee Gary Eblan.
Please voice your opinion, but keep it respectful.
To clarify, it’s different for every weight class. You multiply your contract weight by 1.062 (or 1.0625 depending on who you talk to) and you get the weight allowed the following day.
noah
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 11:34 AM:
Did you mean 10.62 lbs?
Rick
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 11:37 AM:
Before this gets too crazy, I want to throw a point in that likely won’t be, and hasn’t been discussed. The state has the right idea, but has missed the big picture on this one…and what I mean by that is that they are putting fighter safety at the top of their agenda, which is great. The thought is that if guys can only put a certain amount of weight back on, things will be safer because one guy won’t out weigh the other by a large margin. I understand where they are coming from, but years ago (when the commission was involved) we had day of weigh-ins. A major reason it was switched to day before was for fighter safety.
What I mean by that is that guys were still cutting just as much weight, and they had much less time to rehydrate. Weighing in the day of isn’t a new idea…it’s one we tried before and it actually put fighters more at risk.
Fighters will always find a way to make the weight, no matter what weight it is, and if fighter safety is truly the most important thing, we won’t make them weigh-in multiple times. Day before weigh-ins were initially instituted by other athletic commissions because it allowed fighters a day to recover after weeks of dieting, and putting your body through hell to make weight. Adding another weigh-in will only add to the hell they put their body through.
I like that the commission is thinking about fighter safety, but I think double weigh-ins will do more harm than good.
Bonnell
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 11:44 AM:
I can assure you will never see me at 135 ever again if thats the case. This is stupid. I can respect the commission looking out for us as far as safety goes but this will change things for sure. Currently there are fighters that will cut 25lbs and put it all back on if not the majority of it by fight time. those fighters (ie. Dennis Olson, John Benoit, Ortilani, myself, etc) will be penalized by this. some of these fighters are good enough to move on to the big show were they dont practice this rule. I’d hate to see fighters have to start fighting up a weight just to stay within this rule, or moreover cutting the weight twice in 2 days to stay under the required weight.
dan okeefe
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 11:47 AM:
I don’t agree with that at all. Based on that deviation, they might as well have said day-of weigh ins are now the structure. Though there is frequent debate about weight disparity and the fairness of competition, like it or not, it is an element of the sport. Not only training correctly and being in proper cardiovascular shape, but optimizing your size and strength while still ‘making weight’. This standard has been set by the UFC/WEC/Strikeforce etc, with guys there weighing 10-20lbs over their day before weight by fight time. Its become part of the sport, and to pass regulation in MA differentiating from what is consistent in all other areas is pretty skewed.
This also sets a poor precedent for those guys trying to make it to the bigger shows. They will be in a system where, if they compete at 155, they have to walk around at 155. If they get the call up to a bigger organization, they are forced to fight guys now who are attuned to cutting weight, and are at an obvious disadvantage. Bad idea if it passes.
M. Giove
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 11:48 AM:
Hopefully that is a mis-print and you meant to type 10.62 pounds. If it trully is 1.062 pounds, what is the sense of having the wiegh ins the day before….bizaro to say the least…bizaro
catch.wrestler
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 11:56 AM:
Great…. All you guys that fought to get a commission. How do you like having a commission now?!?!
Hagopian
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 12:43 PM:
They do this in OH. You weigh-in the night before, and then you weigh-in the day of the fights. Fighters can’t weigh more than 13 lbs from the night before.
MLenfest
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 1:07 PM:
Mass does this for boxing as well. Check out:
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/dps/inf/inf_boxing_medical%20requirements.pdf
The weight rule for boxing is: “At the time of the scheduled match, no fighter’s weight shall exceed 1.0625 times their maximum contract weight”.
This could be an uphill battle. Rick do you know what the procedure of the public meeting will be? I’m a New Hampshire resident but might be able to get some of my Mass friends to attend.
Jason Franklin
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 1:17 PM:
Well I guess we will never see the UFC in MA.
Hagopian
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 1:26 PM:
Kevin MacDonald clarified this to me. The way it is currently proposed in MA, a fighter would weigh-in the night before to meet the contract weight. As an example, say that the contract weight is 170 lbs. The next day, up until the time of the fight, the fighter cannot be more than 1.0625 x the contracted weight (in this case 170 lbs.). In this example, the fighter could not weigh more than 180.625 lbs. up until the point at which the fighter competes.
Hopefully I explained this correcty. Again, this is how Kevin just explained it to me.
scott r
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 1:34 PM:
north carolina has the same day wh in rule as well, no more than 13lbs day of. Y is mass goin with 10?
TommySands
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 1:52 PM:
Based on what Hagopian posted. It appears that the allowance will be different for each weight class, which makes some sense.
Class Multiplier Fight day MAX Allowance
135 1.0625 143.4375 8.4375
145 1.0625 154.0625 9.0625
155 1.0625 164.6875 9.6875
170 1.0625 180.625 10.625
185 1.0625 196.5625 11.5625
205 1.0625 217.8125 12.8125
Does this seem correct to you guys?
kavery39
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 1:59 PM:
I’m a HW and i think this is such a BS rule
Rick
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 3:12 PM:
I have another question…what tine are the day of weigh-ins? I ask because North Carolina has a similar rule, but the weigh-ins are 8 hours prior to the start of the event. So if the start of the event is 7:30 PM, guys would hit the scales for weigh-in #2 at 11:30 AM. What time will the 2nd weigh-in be? Obviously 8 hours prior to event time is better than 2 hours prior.
And if it’s 8 hours prior, who is going to run the weigh-in? Many people involved with the commission have regular jobs…so for a Friday event they have to leave work early Thursday to make the 5:00-6:00 weigh-in, then take the day off Friday to hit an 11:30 weigh-in? Seems like a huge pain in the ass for everyone on the commission for something that won’t improve fighter safety at all.
Rick
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 3:13 PM:
TommySands is correct.
Andre 3000
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 4:22 PM:
i dont agree to this
BMUR
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 4:46 PM:
I agree with Rick. That is the reason they only do same day weigh-ins in PA, because the commission won’t come out twice. In Ohio they held the 2nd weigh-in at 9:00 a.m the day of the fight, which still kinda sucks! I only wonder if the same rules will apply when the UFC comes to Boston?
Reep
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 5:05 PM:
foolish, foolish commision……..Rick is right, they are TRYING to be safer, but it will put more fighters at risk. Also, it’s going to suck when a few good fights get scratched last minute on every card…. the UFC will never come if this is the rule!!!!
Bill Mahoney
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 5:13 PM:
Mark is right, there is then no reason to do the day before weigh-in, the only good thing about this same day thing is you don’t have to make the day before trip.
Now we have the worst of both worlds.
But it is what it is, I really need Rick’s question answered.
If they are re weighed in around the time the DR see’s them then they can still be say 18 pounds over the day before and they then have to not each too much, sweat again and then be say 9 over when they see the Dr then eat.
If the reweigh in all happens prior to the show starting when negotiating fights I won’t just be talking money and weight, but where they fight on the card.Guys late on the card will be able to cut far more day off and have time to get the weight back.If fight orders are switched right before the show(as often happens) all hell will break lose.
On the other hand if they are reweighed in shortly before getting in the cage everyone will try and cut it so close some shows will have half their fights fall through moments before.
I kinda thought the state was coming back in so they could make big bucks getting the UFC around here….it may still happen but the big UFC weight cutters will have to fight at catchweights or move up a division.
catch.wrestler
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 6:01 PM:
They do this for boxing too but boxing has over twice as many weight divisions.
MMA = 7 divisions
Boxing = 18 divisions
Kevin the Ref
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 8:17 PM:
Hey guys, if you wish the commission to revisit this rule, OR, you wish to take part in the debate over elbows (I believe they will be discussing the possibility of disallowing ANY strikes with the tip of the elbow) there is a public meeting tomorrow morning at 9am at :
1 Ashburton Pl. Boston MA.
on the 13th floor in the Dept of Public Safety office. This location is right behind the state house.
John McDonough
on Mar 9th, 2010
@ 11:05 PM:
In a lot of ways I like that they are trying to stop people from cutting too much weight. Cutting too much weight can be dangerous especially to people who haven’t cut weight before, don’t have a system in place to do it or just aren’t educated as to what exactly is happening to your body as you cut weight.
Its nice on some level, but it just doesn’t fit in with what is happening with the rest of the MMA world. The UFC isn’t enforcing this (will they come to Mass if they have to abide by these rules?), no other major mma ’state’ is enforcing this. So why Mass? This changes the competitive nature of the sport in this state.
Last I heard, the commission was going to eliminate Amatuer fights until a national body was put in place to regulate it (please correct me if I am wrong on this). Now they are enforcing another rule that will further stifle the sport.
There doesn’t seem to be any cause for these rulings. Was there some kind of pandemic issue with weight cutting? were the amatuer fights too brutal? In the end these rulings make it harder for fights to happen in the state. People will just go elsewhere.
Hawk58
on Mar 10th, 2010
@ 7:17 AM:
This was started by the destruction of Joey Gamache.A real eye opener for the Boxing world and now it seems to have moved over to MMA. here is the link
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2009/07/11/2009-07-11_exchamp_gamache_to_break_silence_in_court_battle_against_nysac.html
TommySands
on Mar 10th, 2010
@ 11:26 AM:
Is there a central place where we can follow the decisions/rulings of the commission? I’ve been looking all over and find very little official information. It would be great if there was such a site, perhaps this is a great opportunity for this site to expand a little by adding a Commission category.
Has anyone else found any good informative sites on the proposed rules or changes that they are going to implement?
Joe Kavey
on Mar 10th, 2010
@ 3:19 PM:
Although I think this is a healthy choice there should be a warning before two weeks before the first sanctioned show in our state.Tommy Sands has the right idea. How come I can’t put back on as much as weight as a guy in a heavier weight class than I? I believe it’s also easier for a bigger guy to cut. They hold more water and sweat easier. Some heavy weights sweat a TON. If people will follow the rule it will change a lot of things. Reputable fighters will be bouncing around in weights they don’t want to fight in. I weigh what I fight at but I haven’t in the past plus most fighters cut weight so the change will be a big one. Plus Tommy said UFC won’t come here and he’s right Dana White can make money in other places with fights that HE wants. He may be able to pull off a light weight/heavyweight card but that could be a pain in the ass so why bother right. The UFC says they are on their way here but they might be like fuck that. I think the comission should go back to the drawing board on the miscalculations of the differences of recovery weight per weight class alone. It is a fair rule but it’s too fast too soon they should set a date that this will be in effect ahead of time not suprise us two weeks before competition. Plus as I stated above it may hurt a bit if I don’t get to see Wandy in Boston.
Joe Kavey
on Mar 10th, 2010
@ 3:24 PM:
I bet we could turn this page into a petition. We could get more assholes to sign up too!
Dysqo Dave
on Mar 10th, 2010
@ 3:57 PM:
Anyone have any insights to what RI is doing? I know they voted to regulate MMA about the same time. All RI needs to do is not put stupid rules like this in place and Danny will say “Fine, if that is what you want to do, we are going down to Providence to the Dunk.”
DiLorenzo
on Mar 10th, 2010
@ 5:07 PM:
@Dave – I check it regularly on RI, the office down here has nothing to report as of yet….
catch.wrestler
on Mar 10th, 2010
@ 6:10 PM:
Kevin,
I think the commission will do what they want regardless of who shows up or what is said. The status quo is to decide what they want to do and then shove it down your throat. The most knowledgeable MMA person (Joe Esposito) fought “tooth and nail” to not have this rule but they disregarded him and voted to have it anyways. That shows a lot in my opinion.
Bill Mahoney
on Mar 10th, 2010
@ 6:39 PM:
As catch sez, and we tried to warn u all.Capitalists can be held accountable. they can get fired when the mess up, state workers can’t.Personally I think Id be wasting my time to even bother, Id love to be wrong but I havent been so far.
As for the weight rule.many fights will be canceled day of because of it, at my club we cannot make fights until we know when the day of weighins are.
Finally what some of u may not grasp, is that it is VERY hard to get the right paperwork in many states, no idea how this state will do it.But in many when we show up with the right paperwork the commission finds something innocuous wrong with it and we gotta get some tests twice, and we gotta get doctors jumping through hoops to get it right.
With the weight thing too, I’d venture that cards with 25 fights scheduled will wind up with 8 fights.
Many of u still have no idea how bad this could get.
Personally I don’t wanna make a fight unless the opponent faxes me the paperwork so we can be sure he’s gotten it right, otherwise so many will be training and find out they arent fighting day of.
I hope it becomes standard practice where guys fighting send each other copies of the paperwork soon after the fight is scheduled.It’d really ease my mind.Most states my club have fought in are nothing like NH, and also much worse than MASS was when we had a commission, and that was a huge pain.
But whats done is done, Ill stop bitching.But many of you should please stop bringing up logical solutions to the issues presented, logic has nothing to do with it anymore.
catch.wrestler
on Mar 10th, 2010
@ 7:20 PM:
I’m really hoping what I think is wrong and what Bill is saying is wrong. The meeting was at 9AM this morning so I’m interested in what happened and hoping I’m proved wrong!
Rick
on Mar 10th, 2010
@ 9:14 PM:
If it makes any of you feel better, I heard through the grapevine that this article, along with the comments and suggestions were printed out and handed around at the meeting today. I didn’t hear much about what was discussed after that, but it seems the people making the rules are at the very least reading the comments and concerns voiced here.
Thank you all for keeping things respectful, and I’ll post updates if I have them.
Dalton
on Mar 11th, 2010
@ 3:10 PM:
I heard there is another meeting this week. Anyone know the time and if the public invited? Maybe we can get the weight thing overturned if a good crew shows up! If it’s on Sat. we could get all the lads together and make a day of it!!! Did anyone say “bus leaving from the Charlie Horse?” After the meeting we continue up to Nashua High School to support the “soon to be extremely busy” NH MMA Commission and the GFL. BYOB and put it into McDonalds cups before entering gym.
Scott Thorson
on Mar 11th, 2010
@ 9:02 PM:
Any word on the meeting yet?? I have wanted to go to one of these for quite some time. If it is on the weekend I could finally make it. If anyone hears, please post so those of us who are interested can go.
Mike T
on Mar 12th, 2010
@ 2:18 PM:
There’s a Commission meeting tomorrow morning at 9am at the Dorchester Armory, 70 Victory Rd. Lets see if we can get some bodies there and let the Comm know our concerns.You never know, maybe they’ll listen.
kkline_83
on Mar 13th, 2010
@ 12:56 AM:
Hey, here is a good question. What the fuck was wrong with the rules before all this crap and future crap they will come up with? I am sure they have good intentions but I think there are to many people trying to be more than what they are and talking about shit they know nothing about. Add this rule to the list of stupid rules. Its one thing to revise the rules and monitor but all this is going to far. I am not just talking about the weight rule either. I dont need to elaborate about why most the new rules are dumb as its a waste of my time but I have a strong feeling the sprot is going to struggle hard in this state come the end of all the bullshit. Before you know it, I will have to stand in the corner in a time out for swearing on this site.
kkline_83
on Mar 13th, 2010
@ 1:04 AM:
I am calling it now… there will be no such thing as a stacked fight card. We will go from 20 fights to 5 fights on a card. I really cant believe this shit. Pass this info onto the state/commisioner. The more rules you make/modify and the harder you make it for fighters to compete, the less fights there will be. Less fights means less people show up at events. Less people/fighters means demand goes down and ticket prices drop. Less fights a year because they cant produce a decent fight card so they stack it all on 1 or 2 events a year means less money. Less money means your out of a job! Keep making it harder for everyone and you can get in line for unemployment.
kkline_83
on Mar 13th, 2010
@ 1:11 AM:
Fucking lucky I missed the meeting. People are stupid. This really pissed me off this time. Im done here before I really get in trouble
Rick
on Mar 13th, 2010
@ 8:51 AM:
I’m guessing you missed the part where I asked people to keep it respectful, along with the update from the commission? The commission has been reading the comments on here, and they’ve been reading them because they want to hear what the community has to say, and we’ve been saying it in a respectful manner.
If they read comments like yours, they are likely to think we’re all idiots who just want to insult them, and they’ll likely stop listening to us. As far as the part about being out of a job…they are all volunteers.
Bill Mahoney
on Mar 13th, 2010
@ 4:26 PM:
I’d love to hear whats going on with the tests pro’s will need, and does that mean they need these tests for the next show in MA? Or is ther a grace period.Also people have been saying there may still be amateur fights maybe run under a karate organization, is this true? If so will the ammy fights need be on separate cards or can there still be pro/am cards? I’m under the impression these things are not settled, and so I expect no concrete answer, but anything anyone who’s informed can tell me MAY even happen may be useful.
Matt Bessette
on Mar 15th, 2010
@ 10:50 AM:
Along with spending 2grand on medicals, now I have to weigh in twice, can’t be over 164.69 the day of fights, can’t throw elbows…what else am I missing???
Looks like it’s BJJ and Judo tournaments for this guy until they get this shit figured out…